386. What the Media Isn’t Telling You about Ukraine | Frontline Reporting with Chris Herlinger

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Chris Herlinger:

I think that those people who feel comfortable giving a donation to a group of Catholic sisters, I think you can feel 100 percent confident that the people who need the assistance will be getting it.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Hello and welcome to The Daily Helping with Dr. Richard Shuster, food for the brain, knowledge from the experts, tools to win at life. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. Whoever you are, wherever you're from, and whatever you do, this is the show that is going to help you become the best version of yourself. Each episode you will hear from some of the most amazing, talented, and successful people on the planet who followed their passions and strived to help others. Join our movement to get a million people each day to commit acts of kindness for others. Together, we're going to make the world a better place. Are you ready? Because it's time for your Daily Helping.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Daily Helping Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. And I am so excited to share our guest with you today, his name is Chris Herlinger, and he is an award winning international correspondent. He covers impactful humanitarian work of Catholic nuns across the world. He is a New York based freelance journalist. He's written on humanitarian and international issues for Harvard Divinity Bulletin, Christian Century, Huffington Post, so many others. His work for humanitarian groups has also been covered in the Church World Service.

He's here to talk to us today about Solidarity and Mercy, his newest book. This book is about the Power of Christian Humanitarian Efforts in Ukraine. And whether you're a religious person or not, whether you're a Christian or not, I really encourage you to listen to this story because what Chris is going to talk to us today is uplifting, and that's what the world needs so much of right now.

So, without any more ado, Chris, welcome to The Daily Helping Podcast. I am so grateful you're with us today.

Chris Herlinger:

Dr. Richard, good to be here. Just one slight correction. I have been a freelancer off and on, but I am right now international correspondent for Global Sisters Report. It's a full-time job. And it's a project of National Catholic Reporter. So, I have to give a nod to NCR, which is our umbrella, and then Global Sisters Report, which is the specific project I work with.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Totally get it. We don't want to make the nuns angry at you either, right? 

Chris Herlinger:

Exactly. Exactly.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

But in all seriousness, the work that you're doing, the stories that you cover, just talk about the spirit of what humanity could be helping people in their darkest times. But I want to jump back and go into the past. What I would love to do with guests is explore the journey. What is it that puts you on the path you're on today? Where did that begin for you?

Chris Herlinger:

I mean, it is a path. It's interesting. I'm not myself Catholic. My late father was Catholic and my late mother was Presbyterian, and my brother and sister and I, we were all baptized as Episcopalians. And we were church goers for part of our lives, and then that stopped. It was the early '70s, I think a lot of people maybe were at a cultural moment where people weren't going to church so much.

But I went to a small liberal arts college in Minnesota, Macalester College, very progressive Presbyterian-based school, and it was there that I didn't have what I would call a religious awakening or anything, but some seeds were planted there which got me interested in religion. And it took me on a path that after leaving college I was working at several newspapers in rural Minnesota. And there was a wonderful group in Minneapolis, the Center for Global Education at Augsburg - it was then Augsburg College. I think it's Augsburg University - they had travel programs to various parts of the world. And at the time, the wars in Central America were blazing, so I went to El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua, and then later South Africa, the Philippines, and Chile. And in all of those places, there was a very interesting intersection of religious faith and activism, which just really got me going and really fed me both as a reporter and spiritually, really.

And eventually this all ended in me being able to attend Union Theological Seminary in New York City, which is a very renowned center of progressive non-denominational, although it's based in Protestantism thought. And from there, I stayed in New York. I've been in New York now more than 30 years.

And freelance for a while. I did some work for Religion News Service, for the United Methodist. And then, had a long stint with the Church World Service, which is a humanitarian organization, and traveled the world for them. I was, I mean, gosh, many, many places, Afghanistan, Indonesia, the Middle East.

And from that platform, I started to freelance for National Catholic Reporter, which is a publication that I have been reading since college. And eventually I was hired full-time to work on a project covering the work of Catholic sisters. And it's been a wonderful experience, I always tell friends I think I have the best job in journalism. To see and rub shoulders with Catholic sisters in very, very difficult situations, like Ukraine, has fed me. You know, I use that again, it's been great as a journalist but also personally to feel their strength and their warmth in

facing some very difficult challenges in the world.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

You know, one of the things that comes to mind as I'm hearing you describe your gratitude for having this position is I know a lot of people in journalism, and many of them told me how draining it is because of all the negativity that's generally associated with the media. The media tends to cover things that are more negative than positive for a lot of reasons. Yes, you're seeing humanitarian crises, but you're also seeing the best of us in these nuns who are healing.

So, definitely, of course, I want to take some time and talk about your newest book, but I want to take an even broader view, because you've been doing this for a while and you've listed all of these different countries where you've been in conflicts and whatnot. So, what are some of the common threads, some of the common things that you see amongst people that are helping others during an unbelievably horrible time of crisis?

Chris Herlinger:

Well, you know, I think we have to first realize what's going on in conflicts. And I think what I've seen throughout the world, and there are sort of, of course, differences between all of these places I've been to. I mean, there are differences of language, and culture, and geography, and socioeconomic situations. Although most of the places are and have been challenged economically, politically, socially, et cetera. But I think the dynamic that is always at work is that there's a group of people who are being ignored. And in being ignored and, of course, in many cases being harmed, their humanity has been ignored, more to the point has been violated.

You've got these situations where hundreds of thousands, or in the case of Ukraine, millions of refugees crossing the border and their humanity has been ignored, has been violated. And I think what is great about humanitarian workers - and here I'm using that term broadly, not just Catholic sisters - I think these people are committed to affirming that humanity and to affirming the personhood of people that they are trying to assist. So, I think that's the common thread, they are committed to that affirmation amidst a situation that just isn't affirming people's humanity.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

So, I want to jump forward a little bit, and again, I do think you're probably right, there's just this common thread amongst humanitarian workers who really want to affirm the rights just to exist for these groups that are being maligned and being attacked. But I want to talk about Ukraine.

Chris Herlinger:

And I think one word that I would also use, and I don't think I used it when I just spoke, but I think dignity. I think that when people's dignity has been violated and has been lost somehow, I think that that affirmation of their dignity is primary.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Yeah. No, for sure. So, let's talk about Ukraine. Ukraine has been in the news. You can't escape Ukraine in the Western media. So, talk to us, you were over there, I presume.

Chris Herlinger:

Yeah. I've been there four times, four times since the full scale invasion in 2022.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Okay. So, Solidarity and Mercy, let's talk about your experience there and let's talk about the book. So, what is a reader going to experience when they pick up this book?

Chris Herlinger:

Well, let me do one thing, Dr. Richard. Let me read just a few sentences which will help, I think, frame our discussion because I want to talk about what the title means. Very, very simple really, solidarity, the way I defined it, finding unity in a common experience of displacement amid war. And mercy, finding compassion rooted in the gospel mandate to comfort the afflicted, feed the hungry, offer shelter to those who have lost their homes. And so, those themes frame the book. I mean, that's the umbrella. That's the umbrella, I guess.

What the book is, what I've done for about the first half of the book is recasting the reporting I did for Global Sisters Report and National Catholic Report. Combining, subtracting in some cases, but making it a more fluid narrative for a book length publication. And then, the last half is the exploration of some themes that have come up. For example, the theme of pacifism and just war. Well, what else? I mean, there's actually a lot to that theme, because something that I think Ukrainians have had a difficult time explaining to some people in the West is the justification, that I think they have and they certainly think they have, for fighting back against the Russians.

I've been at several forums, like at the UN - one of the things I do for Global Sisters Report is cover the UN - and oftentimes there are peace activists. I really admire peace activists, and I think they're very, very well-meaning. But they're basically saying to Ukrainians, well, in the name of peace, shouldn't Ukraine, in effect, embrace some kind of compromise with Russia. Now, believe me, no one wants peace more than the Ukrainians. And I'm in contact actually with sister friends - I mean, when I say sister friends, nuns - sisters I've worked with in Ukraine, but I'm also now in touch with some soldiers and hearing some of their stories almost daily about what it's like. And all of these people, none of them want this war to continue. They all certainly embrace a vision of peace, but it's a vision that allows them to keep their national identity and their national borders. And so, they believe the war is justified.

I mean, I will say it's very clear in the book. I mean, I certainly subscribe to that as well. But I don't dismiss what peace activists ultimately believe. I think that what they want is something that Ukrainians want certainly down the line, everyone wants peace, I think. But the Ukrainians, I think, are asking the question what kind of peace. And a peace that gives up, I think it's something like 20 percent of Ukrainian territory to Russia is not for the Ukrainians considered peace.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

So, I want to jump back to the first half of the book, and we'll explore the second half in a bit. But I wondered if you could share one or two really powerful stories from your time over there where you saw acts of mercy, acts of kindness from these sisters that really overwhelmed you.

Chris Herlinger:

I think one of the longest takes several pages, and it was because I met a refugee woman, it was my first visit to the region. The first visit, I was only in Poland. Poland, of course, borders Ukraine, and Poland was the receiving point of most of the refugees as the crisis unfolded. And then, later, actually got into Ukraine several times.

But I met a woman, Svetlana, who was from the East. Many of the refugees, of course, are from the East. The eastern areas which borders Russia, obviously, and so that's where most of the fighting has been going on. And she's Catholic, not Orthodox. And there's a Catholic humanitarian alliance called Caritas. And Caritas helped Svetlana and her daughter - I think it was just the two of them - I think there was a friend of theirs who was with them as well and several dogs. I should tell you, I've never covered a humanitarian situation where I saw so many people bringing pets with them. That was a very interesting dynamic and very, very heartwarming, I have to say.

But Svetlana ended up in Krakow, and was taken in by a group of Dominican sisters, and she's done okay. I talked to her, I think, three times in very emotional interviews. I mean, she was telling me about her story about, of course, coming across the border. But their flight from the East was very, very treacherous and very, very difficult, but they were able to cross the border. And they were taken in by the Dominicans, and the Dominicans have done a wonderful job of taking care of her. Her daughter was in the military and was with her mother for a while, but decided to go back to Ukraine given the military situation. So, that was just a small example, I think, of the kind of dedication many Ukrainians feel toward the military effort.

But with the Dominicans help, she's gotten work and she's continued her education. She was doing some work actually teaching religious education. So, she was continuing her - I'm not sure if it was a degree, but she was continuing her work online studying theology, and helping teach Polish and Ukrainian children, Catholic children catechism.

And the last I heard was that she had left the Dominican residence and was now in Krakow living independently. And she, of course, misses her country and wants to return. But like many people, she is starting a new life and it'll be interesting to see if she ends up staying there in some permanent way or whether, eventually, she returns to Ukraine. But she's not going to return to Ukraine now given that the fact that the war continues. So, that's one very specific story.

But this past February, I was in the City of Zaporizhzhia, which is in the Southeast part of the country, very close to the front lines, and met some villagers who were in a situation where the day I was there with two sisters, we were hearing bombardments. Which was that was a new experience, that was the closest I've gotten to being on the front lines. And the sisters were providing humanitarian aid to these villagers. And these were primarily older people, poor people, economically poor, and either didn't have the means to leave or didn't want to leave their community.

And so, when I think about this question of what would a peace deal look like, and I think about the possible threat that these people might feel from Russia taking over a territory nearby, I think of them and I think of the fact that in this full scale invasion their humanity and their dignity has been neglected and violated, I think.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

The title of the book, we're talking about speaking to The Power of Christian Humanitarian Efforts, what would you like a listener to know about just that? What are those? Obviously, they're providing food and shelter and water. These are obvious things. But at a deeper level and maybe a level that wouldn't immediately be apparent to somebody, tell us overall what you've seen and what the humanitarian efforts in Ukraine are doing.

Chris Herlinger:

Well, I think in terms of the specific Christian response, let me say, as far as I've seen, aid is never predicated on we are a group from church X and we're only going to give aid to people who belong to our church. I mean, far from that. I think that there's a universality in what groups like Caritas and certainly what the sisters do. They're providing aid to the least of those. And I think that that's grounded in the gospel mandate. And I think that kind of dedication and that kind of affirmation that stems from the gospels, the gospel is going back thousands of years, I think to see that thread of history that presents itself in the assistance that's being given right now, I find that very, very moving.

And I want to say - this is kind of an aside - I'm sometimes asked, if you were giving money to a group, which group would you give? And I always say, I think any group of Catholic sisters I would feel comfortable giving money to, because I've seen that there's really not much in the way of middlemen. They get this aid, they get this money, and it's going directly into the hands of the people who need it.

They're not dealing with big bureaucratic structures that the big aid agencies are involved in. Not that they don't do good work. I mean, I think MSF, Doctors Without Borders, for example - or is it Doctors Without Frontiers? - they're also doing fine work. But I think that those people who feel comfortable giving a donation to a group of Catholic sisters, I think you can feel 100 percent confident that the people who need the assistance will be getting it.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Beautiful. Chris, I've loved hearing the stories you've shared. I know that the world needs people to uplift our spirits more than we ever have at any time and in modern history, certainly. I want to ask you this question, and this is something I ask all the guests on my show who've come on for the past 70 plus years, what is your biggest helping, that single most important piece of information you'd like somebody to walk away with after hearing our conversation today?

Chris Herlinger:

I think the war in Ukraine is a great tragedy. I mean, any war is tragic, I think. But certainly this is particularly tragic because I don't think it was at all necessary and not justified. This was an imperialist land grab on the part of Russia. And I think something that Russia has been committed to is to sort of reimpose a Russian reality on Ukraine. And Ukrainians are very, very nationalistic. They're very patriotic. And so, it's just a tragedy all around.

And yet in the midst of this tragedy, and this, of course, was more at the beginning of the war than it is right now, but there was a global response that, I think, was remarkable and helped Ukrainians get to safer places. And I think that kind of global commitment is not only necessary, but I think it says something very, very good about humanity and what humanity can do.

I think the work of the sisters and the work of the church continues. And the church, whatever you may feel about organized religion, whatever you may feel about the Catholic church in particular, the Catholic church is in the world. And in Ukraine, of course, it's a minority church. Orthodox church is the predominant church in Ukraine. But the Catholic church is rooted throughout the world, and I think the Catholic church does help and affirm the dignity of people in these awful situations, so I think that that's a remarkable story.

And as I said earlier, it goes back to thousands of years rooted in the gospel. And I think that thread that binds the current day to the past and to the gospel story is really fascinating and moving and a beautiful thing, I think.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Well said. Chris, tell us where people can learn more about you online and get their hands on your book, which is available everywhere now.

Chris Herlinger:

Solidarity and Mercy, you get it on Amazon. You know, just type in Solidarity and Mercy and you'll find it there. I mean, it has been published. It is now on sale. And I don't right now have a website, but you can certainly go to globalsistersreport.org, and find out more about me, and you'll see some of the reporting that I did from Ukraine that is the basis for the book. So, if you want a little preview of what the book is about, I think you can find that.

Also, some excerpts from the book will be appearing in National Catholic Reporter starting this weekend, the weekend of - what day would that be? - the 12th, I think. So, some excerpts from the book will be online starting the 12th. And then, some excerpts in Global Sisters Report will be, I think, online after the 24th of October. So, people can go there. And NCR, I should say it's ncronline.org.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

We'll have links to all of that in the show notes for this episode at drrichardshuster.com so people can check that out, as well as get their hands in your book. Well, Chris, thank you for joining us today. Thank you for all that you do and all that you've been doing. We really appreciated having you on and talking with us about what's going on in Ukraine today.

Chris Herlinger:

Dr. Richard, thank you. It's a real pleasure. This is the first podcast I've done about the book, and it was a great starting point for me, so I appreciate being on your program.

Dr. Richard Shuster:

Thank you so much. And to each and every one of you who took time out of your day, thank you as well for listening to this conversation. If you're inspired, if you're going to go take action, if you're going to go get your hands on this book, go give us a follow and a five star review on your podcast app of choice, because that is how other people find the show. But most importantly, go out there today and do something nice for somebody else, even if you don't know who they are, and post it in your social media feeds using the hashtag #MyDailyHelping, because the happiest people are those that help others.