415. “Give thanks to others, help yourself” | Finding Joy Through Gratitude with Joel Zuckerman

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 Joel Zuckerman:
The reason I've gone to the computer 280 times over 11 years is every time I write a letter, it makes me feel good.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Hello and welcome to The Daily Helping with Dr. Richard Shuster. Food for the brain, knowledge from the experts, tools to win at life. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. Whoever you are, wherever you're from, and whatever you do, this is the show that is going to help you become the best version of yourself. Each episode, you will hear from some of the most amazing, talented, and successful people on the planet who followed their passions and strive to help others. Join our movement to get a million people each day to commit acts of kindness for others. Together, we're going to make the world a better place. Are you ready? Because it's time for your Daily Helping. 

Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Daily Helping Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Richard. And I am so excited to share our guest with you today. His name is Joel Zuckerman. He is a prolific author, and he has not only authored 10 books, but nearly 300 letters of gratitude as well, which we'll talk about in a bit. As a speaker, he has been engaged by luxury cruise lines, corporate retreats, conferences, country clubs on three continents. He's the only two-time recipient of the Book of the Year award bestowed by the International Network of Golf. And for more than 20 years, he wrote about golf, travel, and a wide range of sports and activities for more than a hundred different publications and websites, including Sports Illustrated, Delta, Sky Magazine, Continental, Maximum, Millionaire. 

In his newest book, which is now available everywhere, Gratitude Tiger: Creating Joy Through the Art of Impactful Letters, Zuckerman illuminates an easy, effective, and endearing, as well as uplifting method to foster and enhance vital communications for both the giver and receiver. You are very much, sir, the chocolate to my peanut butter. Welcome to The Daily Helping, Joel. It is amazing to have you with us today. 

Joel Zuckerman:
Thank you very much, Dr. Richard. It's a pleasure. I'm just listening to that introduction and your audience is confused. Why is this golf writer talking about gratitude? And by the way, Gratitude Tiger has nothing to do with Tiger Woods. We'll talk about that later. But that is a question that comes up quickly, often, and regularly with me. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Well, we will avoid talking about Tiger Woods if at all possible, but nonetheless, yeah, it is interesting, right, because golf is really not a topic I would usually seek to explore on this show, and it is a huge part of your journey. So, let's do this, Joel. Let's jump into the Joel Zuckerman time machine, and let's go back and share with us what put you on the path you're on today. 

Joel Zuckerman:
Well, I'll start by saying golf writing was something I did, not something I do. But I was very fortunate to become a golf columnist for the Hilton Head newspaper. At the January 1st of 1998, I got that job having not written more than a grocery list in 15 years, but I managed to talk my way into the position. I had an affinity for it. I had a way with the column and I moved up and got magazine work. Then, I wrote books quickly, five books in six years in the early part of this century. 

And eventually, I got tired of writing about golf. The financial crisis did a lot to submarine the pay scales in the magazine world. You might recall, or if you look at magazines, they are much thinner than they used to be, and a lot of magazines have disappeared from what we used to see on newsstands. And I started to make a transition into gratitude. 

And I was a speaker about golf, as you said in the introduction. And I realized several years ago that I could speak in the same entertaining way about deep proactive gratitude as I did about golf for all those years. And I slowly put together a keynote speech, a number of workshops, and then advisors to me said, "You should write a book that will serve kind of as an introduction, a business card for your speaking," and that is how Gratitude Tiger, my new book, came into existence.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
So, was there a moment, because I know you pivoted from golf to gratitude in terms of your content area focus, and we talked about this a little bit earlier before we hit the record button, there's a lot more people in the world that would potentially be interested in hearing about gratitude than are golfers necessarily. But was there an event, an incident, was there something that happened to you where you were so profoundly grateful for that experience that you made that shift? What was the impetus for that?

Joel Zuckerman:
That's the million-dollar question. What happened was… so, let me preface this by saying, my understanding about gratitude comes for one major reason, Dr. Richard. I've written nearly 300 letters of gratitude to people who have helped me on my journey. Not you or I or anyone listening to this podcast got to where they got in the world on their own. Everyone has had assistance. Some of us who have been more fortunate have a lot of assistance, and some people who have really come up by their own bootstraps have less assistance. But everyone has gotten to where they've gotten with the help of others. 

I write letters of gratitude to people who have helped me across the spectrum of my life. The incident that precipitated this change from golf to gratitude occurred when I read a very famous self-help book. In fact, honestly, I didn't read it. I skimmed it. It was on my wife's nightstand, a book that you've heard of and many of your listeners have. Don't Sweat the Small Stuff– and It's All Small Stuff. 

The book came out in the 90s. It sold 30 million copies. The author was a PhD named Richard Carlson. And the chapters were two pages long. Literally, two, three pages long. Little hacks to live a better life. One of the chapters said, "Write a heartfelt letter." This was in November of 2013, so coming up on 12 years, 11 and a half years. I read the chapter. I was a very busy writer, speaker, magazine writer. Books were coming out, promoting books, planning books, and I looked at that challenge as an intellectual exercise, like I can write a heartfelt letter. So, I sat down that very day and I typed out a letter on my computer to someone in the golf business, a friend of mine, a mentor, someone who would help me often in my ambitions. Got his address, stamp, envelope, mailbox. 

When I was writing the letter, Dr. Richard, it never occurred to me I would write a second letter. I just did it like, "Oh, I can write a heartfelt letter." Put that envelope in the mail, and I was overcome with a feeling of emotion and connection and a warmth that I have just extended myself to someone one-on-one to share my deep feeling for them, how they've helped me. And it was such an epiphany, that feeling, when I put the letter in the mailbox and realized that he would be opening this and receiving this sincere communication in two or three days or four days. 

I wrote another letter a week later, and then another, then another, then I wrote my sister, then I wrote my brother, then it was 20 letters. After two years, it was 50. I put a little pinch of confetti in the envelope when I wrote the 50th letter. And I kept writing and writing. And then, after five or six years, I was at 150 letters. And I decided to write a book called Grateful, which was a book of my first 180 letters. I wrote 30 more letters over the next year, and I just got subsumed by the concept of proactive expressive gratitude.

And I gave up golf. I gave up golf writing because I had said everything I needed to say and the whole world of gratitude started to open up to me. And that's how I… that's what the jumping-off point was. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
I like that you said proactive gratitude. Talk to us about what that looks like for you.

Joel Zuckerman:
Well, I can tell that you've been at this podcast for a long time because you just know exactly what to ask. Great question. What is proactive gratitude? To me, it's the same really as expressive gratitude. Everybody feels gratitude. When I speak, I talk about, oh, your turbulent flight lands safely. Oh, I'm so grateful. You get a benign medical diagnosis. Oh my God, I'm so grateful. I was worried, I thought it was serious. Everyone feels that, what I call reactive gratitude. But proactive gratitude or expressive gratitude is when you take a moment or a minute or an hour or a period of time to express gratitude to someone who deserves it. 

One of my favorite lines when I speak is from the great American author Gertrude Stein, who said, "Silent gratitude isn't much use to anybody." In other words, it's one thing to feel grateful, but it's a whole different ball of wax to be expressive in your gratitude to others. Let them know you're grateful to them. That is my entire jam right there.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
So, you've written these 300 letters, and I'm curious if you have specific examples of what the ripple effects of doing that were because I can't fathom you'd send 300 letters to somebody and don't have fantastic experiences to report on. So, share top of mind one or two that come to you right now. 

Joel Zuckerman:
Okay, great question. Now, what I have to tell you is… and I'm not gonna get into all this because it'll get deep in the weeds. I write about in my new book, the concept of doxophobia. You're a psychologist. You might be familiar with doxophobia. 99% of the world is not. Have you ever heard that term? 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
I actually have not heard the term. 

Joel Zuckerman:
If you're doxophobic, it's like being claustrophobic, but it means you're not comfortable with being praised. So many people have doxophobia or they're doxophobes or they are doxophobic. It's a $10 word and I've experienced it repeatedly. I've gotten about 280 letters out the door. I'm working my way close to 300, and I'm sure… I hope that I'll get there in the future. Only about one third of the people who I've written letters to have acknowledged the letters. 

So, you wish everyone…  I'm not looking for a bouquet of roses or a singing telegram. It would be nice that everyone who received a letter acknowledged it for one simple reason – to know that it arrived, right? The post office has a 99% success rate, which means sadly that two or three of my letters out of 280 letters have not made it to the attended recipient. What can you do? 

So, most people are doxophobic. They're not comfortable being praised or acknowledging the praise, but I do have a good story I will share with you. My wife's best friend is a woman named Hazel. And as a joyous aside, my fourth grandchild, my second daughter was born a couple days ago, and her middle name is Hazel, Lila Hazel. And not after my wife's best friend, my daughter and son-in-law chose Hazel for another reason. 

Anyway, I digress. Hazel is my wife's very good friend from childhood. She went through a bad divorce a number of years ago. And I admired how she kept her head down, kept earning a living, did not sling maw, did not get ugly as so many divorces get. And I wrote her a letter of gratitude/admiration. This is 10 years ago. It was probably one of the first 30 or 40 letters I wrote. I have never heard a word from Hazel, but she did use an expression with my wife that I have never heard before and never heard since. Hazel said to my wife, "Joel's letter took my knees out from under me." 

So, she never acknowledged it to me. It's a little too, what do you think, rough, raw, personal, when I expressed my admiration and gratitude to her for being such a stalwart individual. But she said to my wife, Elaine, "Joel's letter took my knees out from under me." That's a story I like to tell because it shows, Dr. Richard, that even if someone doesn't expressly acknowledge to you, "Oh, I got your letter," "Thanks, I was having a bad day, it really lifted my mood," if you don't get that type of feedback, it doesn't mean your letter hasn't had profound impact on the recipient. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
It makes perfect sense. I want to take some time now, Joel, and dive into Gratitude Tiger specifically, because we talked about it as easy, effective, and an uplifting way to enhance vital communications between the giver and the receiver. So, let's talk Gratitude Tiger 101. When somebody grabs this book, is it a system? Talk to us about what the experience of this book is going to be like for somebody that goes and grabs it today.

Joel Zuckerman:
The book is... It's a great question, thank you. You're batting a thousand here with these good questions. The book is a why and a how-to. Why would you write letters of gratitude? Yeah, I'm grateful to my husband, I'm grateful to my mother, I'm grateful to my best friend. Why would you write them letters? 

The second part of the book is the how-to. Because I've written so many letters, I want to reiterate, unlike you with your advanced education, you're a clinical psychologist, I have a very organic understanding of gratitude for one reason only. I've written 280 letters of gratitude and it has changed me and bettered me. That's why I wrote the book. I want other people to consider doing the same thing. And this is what we'll get to in the big question later. 

The number one reason to write letters of gratitude is to help yourself. The recipient, they experience what I call collateral joy. Every letter I write, Dr. Richard, is to make myself feel better. When I put that first letter in the mail that I told you about in November of 2013, I had never done it before. And I wrote the letter and I put it in the mailbox, and like I said, when I put it in the mail, I was like, "Whoa, this is really cool what I just did." When he gets this letter, I always describe it as it's kind of like helping an elderly person cross the street. It's kind of like giving good directions to a frazzled passerby. You feel good about yourself, but it's much, much more than that.

So, back to your question, what is Gratitude Tiger? It is a why book, why you should do this, and it is a how-to. I have 12 letters in the book, one from every year that I've written letters, 2013 to 2024, showing what I did and didn't do in those letters. There are chapters about the health benefits of gratitude, how gratitude is essential in the workplace. There's a chapter about what I consider the scourge of AI when it comes to showing gratitude. It should be coming from the heart, not from ChatGPT. 

And one of the best chapters in the book, and as a psychologist, I think you can appreciate this, is called Grateful, Not Gandhi, which means you can be grateful and impatient. You can be grateful and edgy. You can be grateful and irascible. We are all complex human beings. And just because you attempt or succeed in showing deep gratitude to people in your orbit doesn't make you Mother Teresa. It doesn't make you Mahatma Gandhi. You're a flawed person–you meaning me–but by showing gratitude to people who have helped you, you will feel better and be a better person despite your myriad other flaws.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
There's a good amount of research that suggests there are physiological as well as psychological benefits of engaging in acts of gratitude. So, I love that you pointed that out. And I never really thought about it this way, right? Like you, gratitude should be an expression of you. You actually took the time to write the letters. You didn't throw it into AI, right? You did it yourself. It comes from the heart. It comes from your soul. 

And in a year, it's an acknowledgement that we're not perfect human beings, but we couldn't be where we are without the help of whoever you sent the letter to. So, I'm loving this, Joel. I'm wondering what are the do's and don'ts? I mean, obviously one of the big don'ts you just said, don't use ChatGPT to write your gratitude letters. So, we'll… 

Joel Zuckerman:
Number one, number one. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Number one. Number one. But you know, you've written a lot of these now. So, what are the tips, as well as the pitfalls you wish for people to avoid when they're writing letters?

Joel Zuckerman:
Good question, harder question. I'm gonna answer this in an end around fashion. One of the best checks… so, what I have to tell you very simply is this book is fast, fun. Most of the chapters are eight pages or less. There's one long chapter I'll tell you about in a bit called Grateful When the World is Hateful, talking about people such as yourself, really, Dr. Richard, who have overcome tremendous obstacles in life and maintained their gratitude. Most of the book are six or eight, maybe 10-page chapters, funny, fast-paced, uplifting. 

One of the chapters that I should be mentioning at the top of every interview I do is called Seven Paragraphs, Seven Sentences, Seven Words. What does that mean? Because I'm a professional writer, because I'm very effusive, because I'm not afraid to show my emotions, because I have a freewheeling type of personality, my letters tend to be seven paragraphs long. 

Just in 2024, I referenced the Hollies, Bill Withers, Tony Soprano, Barry Manilow. You never know where I'm going in a letter. And I'll bring it back to the gratitude I feel to the person. But just because I am that type of person, most people are not. Most people don't have the time, the energy, they're more taciturn, they're less effusive than I. So, in the chapter, Seven Paragraphs, Seven Sentences, Seven Words, I show you that you can write really effective letters in just seven sentences or even seven words. 

I'll give you an example from the workplace. You're a busy boss, you have people who you rely on, things haven't gone as well financially, there's not going to be a big raise, there's not going to be a big bonus, you want to engender some loyalty and build morale, seven words such as, "You are the cog in the machine." Slack, inter-office memo, text, email, you send that to someone who's important in your organization, they're gonna be over the moon. You could say, "You're the best hire this department has made," or "Keep up the great work. You are invaluable." Quick, it takes 20 seconds. You send that to an…

And of course, you can do the same thing with loved ones or friends. You don't have to wax rhapsodic on the page for seven paragraphs. You can do it in seven sentences and even seven words. So, I mentioned that chapter in the book because a lot of people will read this book and go, "Wow, that's good for him. He never runs out of anything to say. And I love the letters. I love these examples of the letters he puts in the book, but I can't write like that." You don't have to. You can do it in a few sentences or, literally, in a single sentence and show deep gratitude.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
I love that. And you teased this before you went into that, Grateful When the World is Hateful. And I think given the state of the world right now, this feels really important to me. Talk to us about that chapter.

Joel Zuckerman:
I was writing this book last year when I got badly injured in a hiking accident in Peru. And I had to be… first, I was trying to get to Machu Picchu. I was 15,000 feet of elevation, I snapped my quadricep tendon, which goes from your pelvis to your knee, which does not allow you to use your leg. So, not a good accident to have at any point, but on the Salkantay trail at 15,000 feet, really bad.

So, to make a long and horrible story short, first, I came down the mountain on a horse. Then, they carried me by stretcher to an SUV, three hours back to the city overnight, wait three flights, 24 hours back to the city, overnight wait, three flights, 24 hours back to Salt Lake, emergency surgery, and I was on the couch for the better part of three or four months. And here I am a year later, not fully back, but most of the way back. 

I write about this incident in Grateful When the World is Hateful, and then I turn the lens onto people in my orbit who would gladly trade a busted quadricep tendon for their circumstances. A childhood friend of mine who has ALS, she's in her sixth year. A friend of mine here in Park City who lost his son in a skiing accident. Another friend of mine who has multiple myeloma, et cetera, et cetera. 

And I interviewed these five people in my orbit, some closer than others, some of more recent vintage than others, and asked them, how do you maintain an air of gratitude when you've lost a child, when your mortality is looming? And their answers are profound. And I have to say that in several cases, sadly, gratitude does not factor in. Several of my interview subjects say, "I don't know if you can call me grateful, but you can call me resilient. I have managed my unfortunate lot in life as best I'm able."

That chapter, Dr. Richard, is closer to 30 pages as I spend time with these people talking about how they are grateful when the world is hateful.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
And there is a difference between gratitude and resiliency, and you can certainly make an argument that there could be some connected tissues there between them. So, with the people that you interviewed, who went beyond just saying, "Look, you know, you can knock me down and I'll get back up, and life is life," what were the commonalities of those people who did find a way to be grateful during really unbelievably terrible times? 

Joel Zuckerman:
Yes, yes. That's a great question. How do they find gratitude? Several of my interview subjects have started non-profits in honor of... So, my buddy whose son died in a skiing accident was a national champion and highly functioning kid. I never met him. I became friends with his dad a couple years after he passed. His name was Sam. And the charity, well-known in Park City, Utah, is called Live Like Sam. And it's a wellness, mental wellness and emotional wellness charity for kids who are struggling, as you well know, with the pressures of peers and social media. 

So, the Live Like Sam charity endeavors to help young people, eight or ten years old up to late teens, find their place in life and learn to fit in and be happy. I'm doing a terrible job of describing what it is, but my friend Ron Jackenthal, Live Like Sam gives him purpose in running this charity.

Another family in my orbit, they lost their daughter to pediatric sarcoma. She was very young, 11 years old. They have a charity that helps raise funds and awareness of pediatric sarcoma. 

My friend, Pam Grayboff, just turned 65 in her sixth year of ALS. She is incredible. She raises funds for Georgia ALS and raises funds for the Georgia chapter of the ALS Foundation. She tells me that she enjoys… she's completely immobile, she enjoys the bird song, she enjoys the quietude of her life. She takes pleasure in the fact that her family and her caregivers, her 24-hour caregivers are so attentive and so loving and solicitous of her. These stories are incredible.

One other friend of mine with multiple myeloma, a big-time lawyer, he was one of the top lawyers in a 3,000 attorney firm. He has been representing hostage victims in Israel, hostage victims' families. He's found purpose in life by combating anti-Semitism and representing hostage families despite the debilitations of his illness. 

So, all of these examples show people who are… I don't want to say they're grasping at straws because, in some cases, they're fully invested, but they have managed to turn horrible circumstances into some sort of grateful mindset and they are all awe-inspiring.

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Amazing. Certainly, when you hear these kinds of stories, it puts your own life in perspective as to the challenges that each of us are dealing with, and then you're thinking, "Yeah, maybe a torn quad doesn't sound so bad." Joel, I'm so grateful for you for writing this book, coming on the show today. As you know, I wrap up every episode by asking my guest just this one question, and that is, what is your biggest helping, that single most important piece of information you'd like somebody to walk away with after hearing our conversation today? 

Joel Zuckerman:
Great question. I teased it a few minutes ago. The most important chapter in my new book, Gratitude Tiger, is called The Seven Pillars of Expressive Gratitude. And the number one pillar of that chapter… and The Seven Pillars of Expressive Gratitude is also the name of my keynote. Number one pillar is you write letters of gratitude for yourself. 

I am not Mother Teresa, Dr. Richard. I'm not an altruist. The reason I've gone to the computer 280 times over 11 years is every time I write a letter, it makes me feel good. Yes, the person who receives it will receive what I call collateral joy and be shocked and pleased and taken aback and surprised. But every letter I write is to make myself feel better. That's the first pillar. That's the secret to this entire endeavor. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Amazing. Joel, tell us where people can learn more about you online and get their hands on your book. 

Joel Zuckerman:
GratitudeTiger.com. Go to GratitudeTiger.com. You can learn about me. You can buy books from me, and I'm happy to personally inscribe them, which makes a very unique keepsake. Venmo is @GratitudeTiger, or Amazon, BNN, book sales, whatever the normal outlets are. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
Perfect

Joel Zuckerman:
And the book is out, and it's nice, and it's getting… I told you before we started recording, small sample size but so far unanimous five sta- reviews on Amazon. So, I'm very grateful for the support. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
As you should be. As you should be.  And for those of you in the car, we got you covered. Everything, Gratitude Tiger and Joel Zuckerman will be linked in the show notes at drrichardshuster.com. Well, Joel, thank you for coming on with us today. I loved our time together.

Joel Zuckerman:
Dr. Richard, it was a pleasure and you are a great interviewer. I can see why your podcast… Well, first of all, you have a lot of practice. I mean you've been doing it for a long time. You know just what to ask, all the jumping-off points, and it was wonderful to speak with you and I appreciate it. 

Dr. Richard Shuster:
I really appreciate that. And I also want to thank each and every one of you who took time out of your day today to listen to this. If you're inspired, if you're excited, if you're going to go start writing letters and grab Gratitude Tiger, go give us a follow and a five-star review on your podcast app of choice, because this is what helps other people find the show. But most importantly, go out there today and do something nice for somebody else, even if you don't know who they are, and post it in your feeds using the hashtag, #MyDailyHelping, because the happiest people are those that help others.